Shimano American Corporation "STEC Workshop"

Hey just wanted to share some takeaways from the Shimano-TEC Workshop I attended at the end of March as part of my STEC Forum Moderator participation. This was the 2-day class and took place in Irvine CA at Shimano's North America headquarters. I have added links to images where appropriate. The pics linked directly below are only the technical details. The gallery these pics live in also has a bunch of "look inside Shimano" (warehouse, shipping, etc) and "experience at STEC Workshop" (hospitality, tour, instruction facility) stuff in there that you're welcome to browse by clicking HERE. I don't have the email addresses for the newer guys at ECBS Roanoke but feel free to share with them.

Again, LOTS OF IMAGES WITH NOTES HERE.

Tool Tips:

JIS Screwdrivers. Far superior to Phillips in terms of not slipping/stripping. I know there are a couple in use at the shop but the amount they reduce stripping of screws means we should be ONLY replacing worn old phillips drivers with new JIS.  There's a great pic of a JIS screwdriver being held horizontal by nothing more than its engagement with a JIS screw (which is what is standard across all Shimano products instead of Phillips screws).

Midget Wrenches from Craftsman - have some thin and small open ended wrenches in weird sizes that replace expensive Shimano branded special tools.

Park IR-1.2 Cable Routing Tool newest version has a Di2 specific ended cable that clicks inside an etube plug so it can be pulled through the smallest spots.

Shimano TL-CN42 is the best tool to measure chain wear because unlike a ruler, it accounts for roller wear (which has a significant effect on drivetrain function) but doesn't DOUBLE the measurement of roller wear like most other chain measurement tools do. it pushes two rollers in the same direction to measure against thus getting an accurate non-exaggerated method. If you have any tool that measures a brand new chain as being anything but brand new, throw it away. Customers depend on LBS pros for excellence and using known-faulty tools is not excellent.

Dura Ace R9100

ST-R9100 (mech shifter, cable brake) has even shorter throws than R9000. On the rear, the big lever now shifts with 24% shorter throw. On both front and rear, the small lever now shifts with 14% shorter throw. Throw for the big lever on front is not changed but the feel is much improved by the new front derailleur design.

ST-R9120 (mech shift, hydraulic brake) - Still not available from Shimano B2B but hopefully coming soon since OEMs are nearly satisfied.

RD-R9100 (rear derailleur) is now a Shadow design meaning it sits more behind/under the dropout (aero and damage protection) and also has less response to road bumps (meaning no ghost shifts). It is not a clutched design like Shadow+ MTB derailleurs. It also accomodates an 11-30 cassette within spec. Bryce I know has been running his with an 11-32 ultegra cassette with no significant issues. The RD-R9100 is also a Direct-Mount capable design which helps reduce the frequent problems of hanger misalignment but so far very few frames are ready for this. All the current spec bikes I've seen with R9100 are still using normal hangers and the included direct-mount adapter widget. The RD-R9100 also starts with a little more initial cable tension so definitely install cables with the adjuster barrel bottomed. The revised cable inlet also created need for the new little super-flexible piece of housing that comes with the derailleur (OT-RS900). Trim it to fit but it's basically just spiral-wound non-compressionless housing with modern materials. A very short run like this doesn't affect shifting like a longer run of it would. If your frame doesn't need the super flex piece, don't use it. Trek Domane frames definitely need it.

FD-R9100 (front derailleur) is a new toggle design. This thing is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Of note is that there are three adjustments. Cable tension (which you set by lining up two indicator lines on the mechanism), Low Limit (labeled L and exactly what you expect it is), and Cage Position (marked H and definitely NOT a high limit). Unlike most front derailleurs, you adjust cable tension before you actually get it shifting correctly. You then you set the Cage Position which basically moves the cage's position with respect to cable tension, and finally set the L limit. It will take some getting-used-to but it's pretty quick once you get the feel for it. Also, you never need an inline barrel adjuster with these so YAY! One key thing is to ensure you bottom the tensioning tab before you clamp the cable. If you don't you won't be able to add enough tension. You can also use full length housing with this one OR route cable normally through the same part of the derailleur but from a frame guide. Visualize the new no-high-limit in this pic. Of note is that you DO NOT adjust cable tension to make the derailleur shift up or down better. You adjust cable tension in T-Trim shifter position to make the lines just line up then you move the cage position. If it won't shift to small ring, loosen the H screw (and possible loosen the L limit if it's hitting). If it won't shift to big ring, tighten the H screw. Of course you can verify cable tension (to account for stretch/bedding/etc) by shifting to the T-Trim position and seeing that the lines on the back still line up.

FD-R9100 install steps are as follows:

1. Clamp in place, 1mm-3mm high off the big ring using support plate/bolt and/or band clamp as usual. Remember if using Support bolt you have to clamp it crooked with the tail in 1mm then turn the bolt to make it perfectly parallel. Use the L Limit bolt to get the cage lined up with the big ring to set these alignments then unscrew the L limit when done.
2. pop off the link cover and route the cable properly (see picture on imgur)
3. ensure front shifter is in the 3rd (of 4) positions. This is called "Top Trim". As if you're gonna run big-big.
4. Loosen the cable tension screw and bottom the little adjuster ring against it before clamping the cable. Leave a few inches of cable to re-route it back through the link cover and cap off when done adjusting. If the cable is short, getting it through the link cover will be a bitch.
5. Adjust tension bolt to make the two lines on the back of the link line up. On early models these lines are just little grooves in the metal. On newer ones they'll also be painted white. BEWARE - once the lines are lined up, adding more tension WILL NOT push them further. So adjust from low tension from low to high NOT the other way around. Stop once they are aligned.
6. NOW we install the chain and place it on the big ring and big cog. Make sure the front shifter is still on the 3rd (T-Trim) position. One small click down from full Top. Official method is to set chain length by big-big (when not routed through rear der) and add 1" of length.
7. Turn the Cage Position Adjuster (H screw) so that there is 0-0.5mm clearance between the FD's inner skid plate and the chain when chain is big-big and shifter is in T-Trim position. You'll see now the H screw is not a high limit but rather moving the position of the cage relative to the cable tension. Basically as close as you can without rubbing. Keep in mind the skid plate is meant to accommodate some rubbing and is a cheaply/easily replaced wear part ($2msrp and about 30 seconds). It's possible to hear some chain noise from the chainring itself while cross-chaining and mistake that for derailleur rubbing which in turn leads to poor adjustment of the derailleur as you vainly try to eliminate noise.
8. Shift chain to small chain ring (still biggest cog) and set L limit screw to 0-0.5mm clearance. 

FC-R9100 (Crank) has the small ring moved 0.4mm further away from the big ring to improve clearance between chain and big ring when using small-small combinations. This is needed due to wider rear axles (135/142Thru) that come with disc bikes.

FC-R9100P (Power meter crank) has a different install process since the left arm has to plug into wiring inside the spindle. When one eventually comes through the shop, it's easy to deal with, just requires a special little tool to preload the bearings instead of the normal spinny splined tool.  One super cool feature of the FC-R9100P is it has a sealed magnetic charger port (think similar to a Macbook) so you don't have to worry about water getting in, ever.

BR-R9170 (Disc Caliper) is made of forged aluminum instead of cast. This makes it lighter since they can use less metal for the strength needed but its stiffness is reduced - thus use the stiffer BH90 housing with these calipers instead of BH59 hose that was specified for cast calipers. Using BH59 hose with a less stiff caliper would feel mushy. Likewise, using BH90 hose with a super-stiff caliper would feel very on-off and hard to modulate. The right combination just feels right.

SM-RT900 (Disc Rotor) is an evolution of the Freeza design used in SM-RT99. It is not lighter weight but it runs "86 degrees cooler" than the RT99 in whatever standard test they use. This is due to the cooling fins being 'fan' shaped to blow air through as it spins and also being larger, with a special heat-rejecting black coating. Due to this, a 140mm Dura Ace rotor can now manage as much heat as a 160mm Freeza rotor.   Pic of the new hotness HERE.

WH-R9100 (wheels)

• clincher wheels are identical to R9000. These include the C35 clincher (now called C40 clincher) and the C24 clincher. They are also still a co-extruded/laminated carbon/aluminum hybrid rim. The carbon laminate (note: not just a "fairing") lets them be stiffer and lighter than a simple aluminum rim of similar shape.
• tubular wheels continue to be full carbon but are a new wider/deeper shape. They come in C40 and C60 (approximately 40mm and 60mm in depth). They are available in rim-brake quick-release (WH-R9100-C40-TU) OR disc-brake thru-axle (WH-R9170-C40-TU)
• tubeless wheels are now full-carbon rims because they are also disc-brake only. They also share the new wider/deeper profiles of C40 and C60. They are thru-axle only (12x142 and 12X100).

Road Hydraulic Disc Brake Levers

Bedding Process

• They don't want you to get them super hot. You just need them warm enough to get pad material evenly distributed across the whole rotor.
• Apply brakes moderately until ALMOST stopped
• Avoid locking the brakes or stopping as this creates uneven 'stepped' deposits that will hinder more even bedding
• Braking too hard during bedding will also cause slight shuddering from the vents/etc to affect pad deposition rate. So basically brake hard enough while bedding that you feel no shudder.
• Repeat 10+ times.
• Bed front and rear separately.
• A junk treadmill (that still runs) is a super convenient way to repeatably bed brakes without needing to go outside

Bleeding Processes 

• vary based on orientation of the master cylinder within the lever body... The reason for the tilt is to free bubbles that get trapped. See below for model-specifics

ST-R785 (Di2 Hydraulic, Ultegra grade)

• Use BH59 hose
• Has reach and freestroke adjustment
• Tilt up then down 30 degrees during bleed to free bubbles in lever master cylinder

ST-RS685 (mech shift, hydraulic brake, Ultegra grade)

• Use BH59 hose
• has reach and free stroke adjustment
• tilt down 50 degrees to free bubbles during bleed (edge where the hood meets lever will be level to ground)

ST-RS505 (mech shift, hydraulic brake, 105 grade)

• BH59 hose
• reach and free stroke adjustment
• tilt up 45 degrees to free bubbles during bleed

ST-RS405 (mech shift, hydraulic brake, tiagra grade)

• BH59 hose
• Reach adjust only
• tilt up 45 degrees to free bubbles during bleed

ST-R9170 (Di2 Hydraulic) Dura Ace

• BH90 hose (to be used only with BR-R9170 Dura Ace forged caliper)
• Reach and free stroke adjust
• needs long bleed funnel adapter
• tilt down so bleed screw is level to free bubbles during bleed

ST-R9120 (mech shift, hydraulic brake) Dura Ace

• BH90 hose (to be used only with BR-R9170 Dura Ace forged caliper)
• Reach and free stroke adjust
• needs long bleed funnel adapter
• tilt down so bleed screw is level to free bubbles during bleed

Road Hydraulic Disc Brake Calipers

Just like in the brake levers, bubbles can be trapped in the caliper if not bled correctly. The exact path of fluid through the caliper when bleeding varies but pretty much all of them will trap a bubble in various places if the caliper is left bolted horizontal like on a chainstay. Pics HERE of the trapped bubble and HERE of the obvious fix.

The new Flat-Mount caliper standard is quickly becoming normal on all disk brake road bikes.  It's nice because the front caliper comes with a simple flip-flop adapter that lets it work for either 140mm or 160mm rotors with no other parts needed.  The rear comes with no adapter in the retail package and would normally work with a 140mm rotor.  If you want to run the rear with a 160mm rotor you need this simple adapter that comes with its own bolts.

Although adapters are way easier to deal with for Flat-Mount, with any REAR flat-mount brake caliper, the length of bolt required will depend on the frame.  The mounting holes on a steel frame are likely to be much thinner than the mounting holes on a carbon frame.  Because of this, Shimano offers Flat-Mount bolts in six lengths from 23mm to 48mm, meant for mounting hole thicknesses from 10mm to 35mm.  There's an easy chart to figure it out HERE.  Trek Domane carbon frames have a 25mm thickness which calls for the 38mm bolt.  Flat Mount calipers just happen to come with 38mm bolts so that's nice.

BR-RS785 (Post-mount caliper)
-Bleed screw opens valve to bleed boss hole. In other words, fluid doesn't come out at the screw.

BR-R9170 (Flat-mount hydraulic caliper, Dura Ace) - to be used only with BH90 hose due to lightweight forged body.

BR-RS805 (Flat-mount hydraulic caliper, Ultegra grade)

BR-RS505 (Flat-mount hydraulic caliper, 105 grade)

BR-RS405 (Flat-mount hydraulic caliper, Tiagra grade)

BR-RS305 (Flat-mount CABLE actuated caliper, Sora grade) - This guy works with cable brake levers and accepts the same shape pads as its hydraulic big brothers including the finned metallics for maximum heat dissipation.

J-Kit Easy Hose System

(common on OEM builds but also ALL Dura Ace hydraulics OEM or aftermarket)

• Only ever remove the plug with the port facing straight up.
• Insert hose and tighten the connecting bolt while pushing sealed hose end straight into unplugged port
• NOT A 1MAN JOB unless you have uncommonly good dexterity. It takes only seconds with 2 people but is way easier. It requires jamming hose into connecting fitting firmly (2 hands) while also tightening (another 1 or 2 hands).
• BH90 hose barbs are silver.
• BH59 hose barbs are gold with a grooved rim part# Y8H298040 (older non-grooved-rim gold barbs Y8H298020 are not J-kit compatible due to the diameter of the rim. new ones are compatible with J-kit AND standard fittings).

SORA R3000

FD-R3000 is of the 'long arm' style similar to R9000, 6800, 5700, and 4700 and thus requires the new shifter. There is also a FD-R3030 triple front derailleur but it's an older style and uses the older triple shifter if you still have one (or the new ST-R3030 triple shifter). OF NOTE is that the tool used to choose cable converter position on the FD-R3000 is not the same as used for DuraAce-thru-Tiagra (The white plastic widget "TL-FD68"). Instead it is a little flexi piece of clear plastic that is completely disposable and comes with each derailleur. You have to bend its little plastic tabs to fit it to the derailleur, choose your cable converter mode, then throw it away.

General Road

GS derailleur pulleys are different from SS pulleys. The GS guide pulleys have taller teeth to help guide the chain better in the middle of the cassette which is further away from the guide pulley than the smallest or largest cogs would be. yet another thing to be aware of for those many of us here in Roanoke using GS and wide cassette ratios.

Changes to derailleur cables - Optislick cables are the hot shit. You know the Poly cables tend to have their little coating fray off. Optislick doesn't do that but they are damn close to Poly in terms of slickness. There is also no longer a lower-grade poly cable. The same poly cable used on dura ace is used on ultegra. Poly is the absolute slickest (but wears faster). Optislick is damn close but wears a lot longer.

• Poly comes on XTR, Dura Ace, and Ultegra. 
• Optislick comes on XT, SLX, 105, Tiagra, Sora. 

In terms of Power Transfer Efficiency (how cables are rated for their ability to slide well without frictional losses);

• Poly achieves 81. 
• Optislick achieves 78. 
• Older "PTFE" achieves 74. 
• Standard stainless swaged "SUS" cables achieve 73. 

We should have bulk boxes of Optislick.

11spd Chain Quick Link (SM-CN900-11) is available soon, either included with a XTR/Dura-Ace level chain, in a 2-pair retail pack, or in a 50-pair workshop jar.  Part numbers seen HERE.

Di2

Wire Clips (part no. Y70H98040) are very useful for clipping etube wires to hydraulic lines or cable housings.  They can be found on the STEPS SC-E6000 exploded view diagram but are perfect for any Di2 external routing.  They are easy to quickly clip/unclip from the wires/hoses (nice for replacing cables or hoses) and make for a cleaner setup than zip-tires.

It's growing common to place the Di2 battery inside the steerer tube. Some products that help with this include PRO brand stems/handlebars that assist in hiding the cable routing needed for this. The PRO stems come with the right pieces to make it fit but if using something else, one challenge is getting the e-tube wire past whatever starnut or tension expander is in there. You can often get an etube wire past a normal starnut, especially if it's one of those "Overdrive" style steerers that are 1 1/4" at the top and thus have bigger gaps between the star's fingers. If not, there is also a product made by Trickstuff called the DirtCap that has a special hole for cables/housings that will work for this. As for securing the battery inside the steerer tube, the unofficial recommendation is to just wrap the bubble wrap it comes shipped in around it and that jams perfectly in there. To keep it safe from below (the bottom of most MTB forks are open) you can jam in a basic plastic 1 1/2" bottom finishing cap.

Adjusting some of the newer Di2 front derailleurs is a little weird.

• There is no Low Limit Screw. Low Limit is now set electronically (to enter Low Limit Adjust Mode, shift to small ring and biggest cog then press and hold A-junction/display button to enter adjust then use the shift buttons similar to an adjuster barrel). 
• There is no High Limit screw. Like the R9100 Toggle derailleur, there is a Cage Position Screw called H2. There is also an H1 which is simply a set screw to secure H2. So to adjust the cage position properly, loosen H1, adjust H2 cage position, then tighten H1. It is advised to press your thumb against the derailleur cage plate while tightening the H1.

ST-R9150 (Di2 shift, cable brake) now has a very defined click so it is far more positive feeling than the older buttons. It kinda feels like a mechanical shifter but without cable resistance. It has 2 etube ports AND a dedicated sprinter switch port.
ST-R9170 is the same but with hydraulic braking and no sprinter button port.

FD-R9170 (Di2 front derailleur) is even less mechanical. In addition to the electronically adjusted Low Limit (similar to XT M8050), it also has an electronically adjusted cage position. To enter this adjustment mode, you shift to big-big then press and hold the A-junction/Display button.

All 11spd drivetrains now have synchro shifting - meaning the front shifting and rear shifting can be coordinated by the Di2 system. Update firmware through Etube Project to enable it. One caveat is it requires the new internal battery (BT-DM110) or battery mount (BM-DN100) due to firmware space limitations on the older ones. To toggle thru full manual and two optional synchro modes you just double-tap the A-junction/display button. The A-Junction has colored lights that indicate mode and the display has a little readout that says M, S1, or S2.  S1 and S2 can both be programmed to be either Full Synchro or Semi Synchro and they can also be fine-tuned to select the auto shift points, cross-chain lockouts, and more.

Full Synchro mode means the front derailleur is automatically controlled based on where you are in the rear cassette.  For instance if you're in the big chainring and you run out of bigger cogs to get low gearing, it then auto-shifts the front to the small ring while also auto-shifting the rear to 1 or 2 smaller cogs to match the gear ratio desired.  When and how far it shifts is all programmable.  This mode is good for people who don't really want to deal with front shifting but still need the gear range.

Semi Synchro mode means the front doesn't auto-shift.  Instead, it waits for you to shift the front and then auto-shifts the rear an appropriate number of cogs to meet your target ratio.  Imagine going over a hill crest in the small chainring and maybe middle of the cassette.  You know you're gonna need a tall gear soon for the downhill so you shift to the large chainring.  On a mechanical bike you'd also want to downshift the rear one or two cogs or else you're in too high of a gear.  Di2 does that part for you.  This is probably the best for road riders who are already very used to the need for front shifting as they go through crests or dips AND ALSO who don't want a slightly more disruptive shifting event when only a momentary up or down in the rear may be needed.  The auto shifting ONLY happens on the rear when you manually select a different front ring.

In the workshop we played with synchro shifting in various ways.  For example at my bench we setup a Full Suspension MTB with a 2x11 drivetrain but only a single righthand shifter, using S1 Full Synchro mode, it was simple to use the entire range of gearing (minus the cross-chain combos we programmed out) and have a nice open left side of the handlebar for things like dropper posts or remote damber lockouts.

10 Speed Di2 Rear Derailleur Replacements!

• RD-6770 (old 10spd Ultegra Di2 rear derailleur) is discontinued but there IS an unlisted replacement part available called RD-6770-A. It's basically one of the newer ones but labeled and programmed to work in 10spd mode. 
• There is ALSO a replacement for old pre-etube RD-7970 called the RD-7970-A. Again it's a newer derailleur but programmed to play 10spd and this one has an adapter to let it work with etube. 
• Neither of these are available on B2B. You have to call in to get them.

Shadow Plus

Obviously Shadow Plus derailleurs are not new but since they see all the warranty/troubleshooting, they wanted to stress some things.

ALL ShadowPlus derailleurs require a post-break-in adjustment. Most of them should be set to 3.5-5.4 Nm breakaway torque (less for better shifting, more for better chain stability). Saint/Zee derailleurs however are spec'd for 3.1-4.1Nm breakaway torque. Breakaway torque is easily adjusted with a beam-type torque wrench but better yet a digital peak-indicating torque wrench if available. Using a clicker type torque wrench can be very delicate/frustrating since as soon as the derailleur breaks away, you now have less torque so it won't click and if the wrench clicks first, you don't know how high you had to go past the click to get it to break away so it's a tedious guess-and-check adjustment. The digital peak-indicating wrench will just tell you exactly what torque it saw when the breakaway happened.

Lubrication is needed but you have to be extremely careful where it is applied. It is needed when a chirp is heard at breakaway. It's also needed when breakaway gets harder/easier/harder meaning lubrication is no longer consistent/even.

The grease is applied ONLY between the friction band and the clutch. It is a special grease meant for maintaining friction. DO NOT USE GENERIC GREASE. 

One of the major caveats with the greasing procedure is to be extremely careful when replacing the cam unit. Apparently this is where majority of failures occur. See pic but the idea is to make sure the little wings are facing down and the thinner end of the cam lobe is in contact with the tension spring. Installing it with the cam lobe backwards will cause it to break at adjustment.

SLX M7000 and General MTB

(incl Deore M6000)

Very similar in many respects to XT M8000.

Crank is basically same as XT but with steel bolts instead of aluminum. Steel bolts also mean they can get away with a single length bolt for 1x and 2x whereas alu bolts on XT you had to have correct bolt length due to minimum thread engagement. So now they are the same M8x8.4mm steel chainring bolts as have been used for a long time. (XT was M8x9 for 2x and M8x11.4 for 1x). There is technically a 3x SLX M7000 crank but it is only available in foreign markets at this time and is also a 3x10 system instead of 11spd like the rest of M7000. Weird.

It's notable that due to the offset guide pulley on 11spd rear MTB derailleurs, the guide pulley follows an arc to maintain good controlled spacing to all the cogs - 10spd derailleurs only ever traveled in a basically straight angled line. Concept is similar to OneUp's RADr cage for 10spd derailleurs to be able to use aftermarket 10spd 11-42 cassettes.

Also, there is now a 10-speed M6000 Deore level cassette that is 11-42. This is intended to be used instead of the weird aftermarket big-cog options (like OneUp's 42t+16t replacements). The problem with doing the OneUp kit was always that to fit the 42 you had to lose a cog somewhere else. So with the 42+16 combo, you ditch both the 15 and the 17 and replace with a 16. That's workable but you now have mismatched shift ramp clocking AND you now have bigger jumps between these cogs in the middle. Makes it tough to find the right gear for comfortable cadence. With the CS-HG500-10 11-42, all the cogs are correctly shift-ramped and the steps are all evenly spaced as can be.

DCE+ chainrings replace the earlier DCE versions with an updated tooth profile that is scooped on the trailing edge and also narrow-wide.  Although DCE rings were already superior to most in chain retention, they say the new ones further improve chain retention while also improving durability and reducing noise.  New part numbers are seen HERE.  Picture of the new tooth profile HERE.

Since I mentioned DCE chainrings having superior chain retention, thought I should back that up.  DCE ring teeth have a special hook tooth shape that exerts pressure on the rollers, not the side plates. This means that as the chainring revolves, the momentary rolling friction that the hook tooth exerts has less effect on drivetrain noise and wear than a narrow-wide chainring.

Typical narrow-wide rings with pointy teeth work in part by creating sliding friction against the inner plates of the chain. So while they're effective, they come with a cost. By integrating the DCE hook-tooth shape with a subtly narrow-wide profile to further reduce any lateral shift of the chain on teeth, I can see how retention is even further improved.

Here's some testing done by a downhill/enduro nut in Ontario:
There was a photo of a KORE narrow-wide chainring at the Taipei show a few years back supporting itself by just a few links of chain.
This guy ran the same test on an XT DCE-ringed crank and got it to hold (the entire crank) with even fewer links.

His notes from the test:
===================
As you can see, the chainring/chain interface can support the weight of my entire drive side crank and pedal with as little as four engaged pins/rollers. I only really hung that by the wires for purposes of the photo, but if I pull on that same chunk of chain with my hand, there is no way I can pull it straight off.

In contrast the above Kore chainring (presumably) requires six engaged pins/rollers. I also tested a Wolftooth, Blackspire and Race Face ring to check how they compared. The closest competitor to the Shimano was the Blackspire (which I believe uses Sram's X-Sync tooth profiles), which could just barely hang on to five pins/rollers. I would have to be fairly careful to seat it correctly, and it could wiggle off fairly easily. Six pins/rollers was needed to make it very secure.

This is a pretty easy experiment to perform with any 1x chainrings that happen to be in your shop, and can be done easily with the chainring still on the bike if you have a chunk of 10 or 11 speed chain laying around. Anyone care to contribute some results to the community?

A few notes on the experiment:
-I really have no idea how indicative this is of how well the rings retain the chain in real world riding. But I can say for sure that the ring that performed the poorest is the one I've seen the most issues with in the real world.
-I tried Shimano, Sram and KMC chains on a few of the rings, and the brand of chain seemed to have no effect on the results.
-I tried the Shimano rings in a few different tooth counts, and it had no effect on the results.